India’s largest Content Marketplace with 1L+ creators, 2500+ customers, out of which 70+ are Unicorns.   

Does that ring any bells?   

We’re talking about Pepper Content, founded by Anirudh Singla, in his 2nd year of undergrad college.  

Pepper’s journey started when Anirudh during his college decided to take up freelancing and content creation to fund his graduation all by himself. He then realised the potential of content creators in India and decided to organize it by creating an Indian marketplace for the same.   

In our conversation with Anirudh, we dive into the journey of building and scaling Pepper to $8 Million ARR Content-marketplace in under 5 years and their plans ahead.  

Notes – 

03:06 – Baniya-family background, freelance exposure while at college

07:06 – First few steps to building a marketplace

11:06 – Splitting equity early-on

12:46 – Reaching out to 80+ VCs and Angel Investors while raising their 1st round

17:20 – What made them raise their 1st round? 

18:43 – Scaling from $500k ARR to $8 Million ARR in 14 months

21:20 – Client base: 550+ Active customers and 70+ Unicorns

24:20 – Need to focus on a SaaS based approach for Content

26:15 – “Hustle doesn’t scale. By the same time what scale’s is the mindset of thinking big enough!”

28:25 – “Not building a family, but instead building a high quality sports team.”  

Read the full transcript here:

Anirudh  0:02  

See, for us obviously growth has been crazy over the last one and a half years, we went from doing about $500,000 of annual run rate, to now we’re close to touching about $8 million of run rate, just in the last 14 months almost 16x in the last 14 months. We’ve scaled and I think it’s growing at a very crazy scale, we’re eying double digit million dollar play. As you look to scale over the next year and a half. And the best thing about our businesses when obviously now in the one to 10 stage, it’s a growth stage for us. And we’ve seen models like Pepper scale brilliantly well, globally, where we’ve seen top tile which does 450 million ARR, where they’re basically Peppers model but for corrupt any engineering folks, or there is a company called  Turing which is going crazy and about touching 100 million dollars ARR from 8 in two years. 

Now a scale like that proves that the model fundamentally has that ability to grow. And at the same time, it also prepares us for the next stage of Pepper, which is, imagine us growing so fast just in India alone. And now we plan to take Pepper globally, with a lot of focus towards building out in the US. In fact, today itself 20% of our business is already global. There were 350-1000 Plus users using Pepper marketplace and a software business across 145 countries already. So we are seeing and that’s the power of a truly global product. And that’s reflected very clearly in the kind of team we’ve built out of 150 people now my poor, we have a 60 member product and engineering team. And that DNA towards solving any problem through product greater than process greater than people, is one of our core operating values.

Siddhartha  2:11  

Hi, this is Siddhartha Ahluwalia. Welcome to the 100x Entrepreneur Podcast. Today I’m super excited to bring Anirudh Singla, co-founder and CEO at Pepper. Pepper is building the world’s largest content marketplace and SAS tools. You would be surprised to know that Anirudh is only 23 years old, but comes across with so much maturity and has built a business of scale, which he’ll share in some time of multimillion ARR and employs 150 people full time. welcome Anirudh to the podcast.

Anirudh  2:49  

Thanks Siddhartha, very happy to be here from being an avid listener to being here is quite a good journey. So thanks for having me here.

Siddhartha  2:56  

It’s a pleasure knowing and seeing your journey very closely for the last two years. It makes me so proud to see you evolve into such a great founder. Anirudh we’d love to discuss the roots of how you started. So if you could share your growing up with your family, how you got into engineering and then what made you start Pepper?

Anirudh  3:17  

I come from a banya family, my dad’s been into business, he’s into steel import export in great space. And he’s an entrepreneur who built a $100 million business from scratch. So I’ve seen him scale that kind of scale and gone through ups and downs and so very entrepreneurial nature from the very start very enterprising, always wanted to do something of my own, worked hard to get into BITS Pilani, now when you go into colleges like these, you realize there’s 900 People who are equally smarter, and you’re trying to figure out this one good thing you’re good at that other 900 people aren’t. And the only good thing I could come up with was I could write really well. And that translated for my love for reading. And interesting time after my great stand after my first semester of college I realized I couldn’t be a McKinsey consultant anymore and that’s when I started finding out media houses to intern. A lot of times a first year student wants to intern at a very good place, at that time I reached out to TOI in the sun times and all the top publications at that space. None of them took me in, I was an engineering undergrad, why would they? 

And then your story was an up and coming media startup which is scaling fast and really wanted to get in. So I ended up cold mailing five seven of the top executives five seven times they finally got so frustrated. They said okay you come to Bangalore and we’ll figure something out. Went to Bangalore in 2017. This is summer 2017, an interesting time in life. I was trying to finance my own education at BITS. And the goal was to earn 2.5 lakhs in two months. And never ever earned a single penny in life. Started freelancing for a lot of US based job talent market based platforms like Fiverr, Upwork, Chegg, and so on. Now, most of the opportunities you had to build were only available in US timing, so used to wake up at 5am in the morning, freelance till 9am, 9am to 5pm, your story and 6pm to 12am, again freelance. 

Did this at 19 hours, two consecutive months, ended up earning 2.53 lakhs and learned two things in life, persistence compounds and B as a country there’s just so much talent out here. But there’s no talent marketplace, per se. And the last talent evolution that came out of India was probably Infosys, TCS, which was Indian tech talent for the world. And I realized that there’s a massive population of creative people that could be harnessed into a talent market display. And at that time, Jio had just come in, and felt content will be massive. And so I thought, why don’t we build a content marketplace platform, came back to college, excited a few friends and got started. So yeah, that’s my initial story of starting Pepper.

Siddhartha  6:29  

And where’s your hometown?

Anirudh 6:31  

I am originally from Delhi, born brought up 20 years there, last three years I’ve been in Bombay.

Siddhartha  6:38  

How did you decide to set up Bombay as your base instead of Bangalore?

Anirudh  6:41  

So I think the content creative and the marketing advertising ecosystem is largely based out of Bombay. So traditionally, all advertising, marketing agencies, people who in a sense, we were competing with against, were also based out of here, so it just felt like a more natural fit. And so that’s why we thought it would make more sense to build this out of here.

Siddhartha  7:06  

And when you decided to build a marketplace, what were the first few steps that you took? What was the founding team like along with you, if you could describe the zero to one journey?

Anirudh  7:17  

So, there are four of us who started Pepper. I think for me, it was finding the smartest trends I have, and bringing them together. I think one good thing I think I can pull off is being able to bring great, good quality people together for something. Interestingly none of us were from tech. So while we were engineers, we didn’t know how to code. So for the first two years of building the business out of college from our second year to fourth year, we build the business on Google Sheets. Now Google Sheets has a two to three MB memory. And the reason I know that is we almost reached that. And we had automated 100,000 line items on a Google Sheet, making it literally, rendering it so complex to use that that’s when we realized that, this is a business which will take it to million content pieces like a million play, which means we need to build out a product to drive scale in a space like that. 

So I think the most interesting challenge was how do you build this out frugally. And interestingly, we bootstrapped the business till we raised our first round of funding in November 2019. By the time we had completed our third year of college, which was May 2019, we had done 1.75 crores of revenue, till date, all bootstrapped, and didn’t take money from anyone else. Everything was profitable and revenue driven. So we understood the fundamentals of building business daily. And at that time, we got a call from Y Combinator. We had a final round interview. We didn’t get in at that time. And that’s when we decided that we have to do it now. And that’s when we decided to move to Bombay. So yeah, that’s how we went about it. And then today, we have an amazing founding team. So we have Himanshu, Adish and Kishan as three key founding team members and I and Rishabh are the co-founders. And I think they have an amazing, highly integral role to play and all of them continue to play very key roles in the company today.

Siddhartha  9:33  

Dear listeners before we dive further into the podcast, I would like to thank our sponsors Prime Venture Partners. Prime is the first institutional investor in the category creating tech startups like Mfine, Dozee, Planet spark, Niyo. Prime is now investing out of its fourth fund of $120 million. Today I have with me Sanjay Swamy, managing partner Prime Ventures. Sanjay Prime has played a key role in devloping the fintech startup ecosystem and the financial services ecosystem in India. Can you elaborate on that role? And what does the next few years of FinTech look like for India?

Sanjay  10:12  

so that FinTech in India is a never ending opportunity. Because people are either unserved, underserved or poorly served. Whether you’re a small business or whether you’re a consumer, there is always a better way of accessing financial services, three areas that we look at and the keeper is still very bullish about the sector. One is, just better customer reach, better customer service, better customer experience for laser focused FinTech solutions. Second is verticalization of FinTech, whether it’s for logistics, whether it’s for health education. And the third is infrastructure plays where companies are actually now FinTech enabling the incumbents, whether it’s a bank or an NBFC. So these are three areas that we are still very, very bullish on. And of course, not to mention the entire web three crypto space, which we see is going to be a huge opportunity here.

Siddhartha  11:05  

Now moving a little forward, If you can share, how would you call a decision to split equity among yourselves? Because it is a very hard decision to take very early.

Anirudh 11:14  

Yes, I think, at the end of the day, it is very linked to, like, there is no playbook really, there is no formula, as muchas people would want to hear that. It is very linked to your roles and responsibilities and your skin in the game. At the end of the day, long term wealth creation is based on terms of equity. And that’s where it’s extremely important to realize how strongly is one in for, and even before talking about equity for us, early stages, and you talk to me about the initial team, is the reason behind why the team is in for this has to be extremely solid. 

While I’m all up for wealth generation, but at that time, the fundamental reason behind joining in early stages is not to build that impact, or that kind of scale, or truly believe in the mission and vision of doing what you’re doing. And it’s a very different game you’re playing. And that’s why I think, at least for the founders, the skin in the game is everything and absolute. And I think that also eventually ends up driving decision making in terms of how you want to go about splitting equity. And then obviously, there is a lot of focus in terms of roles, responsibilities, and how one would want to do that.

Siddhartha 12:46  

And if you can share it, how did you manage to raise your first round, how many cold reach out you have to do to get that first check?

Anirudh  12:59  

So I remember we reached out to, we cold mailed 80 VCs and angel investors at that point of time, obviously didn’t have a very large network coming at that stage. So you had to mostly rely on reaching out on your own. And at the same time, there are a lot of folks and friends who are very kind enough for us to make some introductions to key folks. I remember there was a lot of fussel, it took us about three months to get everyone in place, we were raising 2.2 crores which is 300k that time and I think by the time we were almost nearing closure of the round, we were oversubscribed, up to five crores. 

So we had the good fortune of choosing who we wanted to partner with. And that’s where we are very key about who we’d want to bring on board. And, Kunal, Rohit were folks who we’ve always seen and learned so much from and I think it was a no brainer to get folks like these on board. And then we had I think 10 Other folks join us at that round, and I think, highly grateful to each one of them for believing 19 year olds at that time.

Siddhartha  14:20  

And is it the folks from the 80 reach out that you did, who’s the first one to say yes, and be the lead for the round?

Anirudh  14:26  

Yeah. And in fact, Shraddha Sharma from your story, we convinced your story to put in money. So Shraddha was the first.

Siddhartha  14:34  

And then who became the largest in the lead for that round?

Anirudh  14:39  

Kunal and Rohit led the round from Titan.

Siddhartha  14:42  

And then you mentioned that you had to choose based on your work on it. So how did you make that cap table and how to choose the right set of folks because they were all Angles?

Anirudh  14:55  

Yes. See, I think when you’re also talking about angels, obviously today it’s become a lot about, just brand names and introducing. But early on in your journey, you need people who can build fundamental value in your business, who can afford to spend some time with you as well. There is no point bringing on board an angel who is just there for a brand value’s sake, but does not end up spending that time you need to be able to grow and nurture. So for us, we wanted to get in people who could, the strongest value add we wanted from our investors was customer introductions. So we chose people who could automatically introduce us to their portfolios, who could really maximize scale for us, because at the end of the day, the biggest ROI is customer ROI. And that’s what was extremely important for us, when you think about these things. 

Second was, people who could guide us with respect to building the right quality products, helping us understand what great looks like. And also some people from the marketing advertising ecosystem alone. For us to understand more fundamentally about the DNA or what that space was, for us, this decision was very lead based on who could actually spend time with us, and who could actually give us utility. And we were very particular, that we want skin in the game very clearly, because while in this capital, you need SMART Capital, especially I think last year was a time of a lot of available capital at that time. 

And I think that’s where entrepreneurs, especially young entrepreneurs, who are doing it for the first time, you need to know those first early people are going to be the gateways for the next success that you drive. In fact, Kunal introduced me to Dev from Lightspeed. And that’s how Lightspeed finally came in. And I think your initial supporters are extremely important towards your next leg of journey. And I think that’s something to remember a lot. 

Siddhartha  17:16  

In how many months after your first round with Kunal did you raise the round from Lightspeed.

Anirudh  17:21  

It was eight months from there.

Siddhartha  17:25  

But you didn’t need to raise the initial round also because as you mentioned, you were at 1.5 C, total revenue that you had realized till that point in time. What was the motivation? Your own expenses or runway was not a motivation?

Anirudh  17:41  

Yeah. See, I think it is when you see strong product market fit, it’s a lot about growth. And I think what we realized is this is a space which had to happen, like in a sense, Pepper had to happen to the world, then probably the world needing Pepper. And that’s when it started becoming very real for us where we went from doing five six lakhs of monthly revenue to I think, 35-40 lakhs of revenue, when Lightspeed came in, I think, a month, that’s where we started realizing that, truly, we had to build strong mods with respect to product and technology. Because this is a business which can go 1000 Next, if needed. If you build it for that kind of scale, and accelerate, go to market and drive more technology, lead plays help became extremely imperative. So that’s where we fail, the value for, raising more capital.

Siddhartha  18:43  

Got it. And you mentioned you raised the round from Lightspeed, I believe that was a 4 million kind of around that you raised. So since then, if you can share, that was a zero to one journey, 35 lakhs and monthly revenue, if you can share how the company has scaled since then, what is the current annual recurring revenue? And how many clients are you working with?

Anirudh  19:07  

See, for us obviously growth has been crazy over the last one and a half years, we went from doing about $500,000 of annual run rate, to now we’re close to touching about $8 million of run rate, just in the last 14 months almost 16x in the last 14 months. We’ve scaled and I think it’s growing at a very crazy scale, we’re eying double digit million dollar play. As you look to scale over the next year and a half. And the best thing about our businesses when obviously now in the one to 10 stage, it’s a growth stage for us. And we’ve seen models like Pepper scale brilliantly well, globally, where we’ve seen top tile which does 450 million ARR, where they’re basically Peppers model but for corrupt any engineering folks, or there is a company called  Turing which is going crazy and about touching 100 million dollars ARR from 8 in two years. 

Now a scale like that proves that the model fundamentally has that ability to grow. And at the same time, it also prepares us for the next stage of Pepper, which is, imagine us growing so fast just in India alone. And now we plan to take Pepper globally, with a lot of focus towards building out in the US. In fact, today itself 20% of our business is already global. There were 350-1000 Plus users using Pepper marketplace and a software business across 145 countries already. So we are seeing and that’s the power of a truly global product. And that’s reflected very clearly in the kind of team we’ve built out of 150 people now my poor, we have a 60 member product and engineering team. And that DNA towards solving any problem through product greater than process greater than people, is one of our core operating values.

Siddhartha  21:14  

And currently the team is 150, as you mentioned. And what would be the total number of active clients right now?

Anirudh  21:25  

Yes, so see till date, we work with some 2500 best brands. So far on an active basis, we engaged with 550 to 600 customers at this point of time. Just to give you a sense, we work with over 70 out of 85 unicorns in the country. We work with over 100 plus enterprises at this stage. So large brands lik, we’re partners to large companies like Adani, Amazon, Google, HUL, P&G, HDFC bank and large companies like these. And we have a very fundamental belief, that every company today is a content company. Every business is heavily investing in content marketing. So for us, the most exciting part is that literally every customer is a prospective customer. Off late, we’ve been focusing a lot on faster SMBs, mid market and enterprise customers, where we see larger term contracts and values coming in. Like we recently just closed, a late seven figure multi million dollar deal with one of India’s largest enterprises, and it’s probably one of the biggest b2b startup enterprise deals that someone’s close in recent times. 

And I don’t think someone would have thought of, there’s going to be a deal by a business like ours. And I think that’s where, the key part about how we think about our businesses is time for a business like this has come where today what Salesforce has done to sales, Pepper can do for content. Where we can make a content ecosystem where we become a one stop shop for doing anything, everything content. For a business, where we have a marketplace offering enabling managed services for brands at scale, along with our software stack that enables companies to be able to manage all forms of content production, distribution, and analytics from one platform itself. I think together the marketplace and the software stack make each other 10x more powerful. And I think that’s something that’s working really well for us.

Siddhartha  23:37  

So at the end of the spectrum, you have a managed marketplace, which if you can share, the kind of contribution it has to your revenue. And what’s the SAS product contribution after your revenue?

Anirudh  23:51  

I think SAS is still early on about 15-20% and growing really fast in the overall scheme of things, and I think huge believers that together market patients as reinforce and make each other 10x more powerful. So that’s how we look at our business as well.

Siddhartha  24:10  

Got it, so the managed marketplace businesses currently 80% of or a little more than that of the revenue. So why was there a need to focus on SAS when this is all already scaling at 16X.

Anirudh  24:25  

The marketplace obviously has grown beautifully but what we realized is the way the world’s moving. Technology is going to play a key role in our industry. And for us, what we realize is what software does is, it augments the ability to make our talent 10x, 12x more powerful. And that’s where we feel that long term investing in software based approaches are also key towards driving strong business growth and impact for all relevant stakeholders be the field answers where software makes the NX more productive, or for customers where cost and speed is extremely critical. And that’s where the software approach allows them to drive more scale for themselves. 

So I think looking at the impact it is able to bring on both sides of a marketplace is where it just felt natural that software can augment the ability of a business to grow much faster. And that’s why you will see not only Pepper but a lot of SAS enabled marketplaces, start to bloom as concepts where you’ll see every verticalized SAS opportunity has a marketplace component to it. And some of the best managed marketplaces will end up building software stacks that allow both user acquisition as well as drive long term product retention modes in the business.

Siddhartha  25:55  

And when do you imagine that Pepper would touch a 100 Million ARR milestone?

Anirudh  26:01  

December 2024. 

Siddhartha  26:04  

Wow, you are already working backwards from that date?

Anirudh  26:08  

Yes, and the question is always, why can’t it be earlier?

Siddhartha  26:14  

Awesome. So what gives you that kind of entrepreneurial energy and drive to make things happen at this pace? Are you still working like 18 hours a day and are industrial sustainable?

Anirudh  26:25  

No, I think I don’t work 18 hours a day, I sleep for seven hours a day, which is good enough. And I think obviously, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There. Hustle doesn’t scale. At the same time, What scales is that mindset of thinking big enough. And I think that’s where building a great quality team makes a lot of sense. I think that’s what something a lot of entrepreneurs don’t invest in early on. You need to truly be able to build a great transformational team that attracts likable talent on its own, and help shape what a company is, a company is not one person, companies is the team. And that’s where at Pepper, we’ve invested in building a phenomenal team. Rohit, who heads our product, built Freshdesk, FreshWorks largest product, Alok who heads our translation business was heading customer experience at Oyo. Akash looks at our text category as key Unacademy leaders, the quality of team that we’ve invested in, reflects everything about the business. And that becomes a multiplier effect in my scale. 

So for me, the goal is not to work 18 hours a day, and drive that. The key for me is can I build 10 More founder level, founder DNA people into the company who think like founders. And I think that’s what makes all the difference. And I think that’s the maturity every founder also needs to build in, which is, and they’ve had a great post about this. And probably this is more applicable at Pepper stage right now than at the very early stage, which is, when do you decide to become the chess player rather than the piece on this board? And I think that’s a maturity sign that companies at our stage probably need to think about.

Siddhartha 28:24  

And you also mentioned one thing, first year, that you’ve gotten advisors, like the CRO of Atlassian, and then set your bar very high that you want to get your CRO like that. Can you share more about that?

Anirudh  28:40  

See, I think fundamentally, a lot of my talent principles come from, see, we’re not building a family, we’re building a high quality sports team. And I think that’s what Gaurav also says, That’s what Doug Leone from Sequoia actually says. And when you’re building a high performance sports team, people don’t realize that. A, the fundamental assumption is we’re already talking about the top one person talent, which is the talent densities already, probably 11 out of a million people. That’s not even one percent, it’s actually much less. And most people don’t realize, but 80% of the time, it is coaching. And then 20% of time is where you should and shine. And that’s where when I think about talent, it is about building out a very high quality team. And second is how do you even go about onboarding that talent and bringing them and ramping them up for that peak performance and that high quality ability? 

So just to give you a context, our team in Pepper over the last six months, has interviewed 8000 people. And that’s when we went from about 60 people to 150 People in the last six months, so every person who comes on board, and I’ve been in most of the last rounds, so for us that DNA, that talent density has to be extremely sharp. And that comes with when you see what world class looks like. So if I want you to understand what a great operating person looks like, I probably speak to Abhinav Sinha, who’s Oyo’s global CEO, and understand what great looks like, and then calibrate, and think about, bringing someone for Pepper versus similar for revenue. And when you see that, the benchmark changes, I think the benchmark has to keep changing at every different stage of the company. Probably the revenue leader I needed when we were at 2 million versus now is fundamentally different. And that’s why you also need to be able to hire talent that can upskill and outgrow itself. 

And that’s where you will see a very key. In fact, we’re one of those companies who have our culture deck out on our website, or on our About Us page, if you have time to go through that. We talk a lot about talent, especially with respect to bringing onboard talent at this stage, you need high ownership. And at least at Pepper ownership can be given or taken. And for me, the goal is very clear when we bring in a senior leader, Pepper hired a lot of senior talent in the last three months. My goal is very clear. If you’re thinking anything less than three years, don’t come. Because we’re not going to be a fast growth company that will hyper scale for two years, and then flat out. We are building a long term generational company and it takes time. And I think that long term mindsets needed to build truly generational high quality fundamental businesses.

Siddhartha  31:48  

And if you can share as a CEO, how do you spend most of your time in a week? How do you structure your time?

Anirudh  31:55  

See I think 55-60% of my time is spent on hiring. I think as a CEO, I’ve learned more to pitch to prospective folks than investors now. So I think that’s also how clearly I can talk to you about how we think about Pepper today. So a lot of my time was in investing in talent, and bringing the best people on board. And always remember that the best talent is never actively looking. So you have to be the one to reach out to them. So I spent a lot of time doing that. I think remaining specially with a lot of our focus now going into expanding into new categories. Pepper was earlier into just content writing. But now we’ve expanded successfully in graphic design language translations, and we soon move to planning to window as well. How do we think about category expansion? And especially we’ve ended up closing large enterprise customer deals at this time. 

So how can I play a role in driving and scaling that becomes extremely imperative. So I think that’s what I’ve been spending a lot of my time on. Now, a lot of my focus is towards starting to build out the US market. That’s where I think Anirudh 2.0 comes into picture. So that’s a new learning curve in the growth journey. I’m really looking forward to.

Siddhartha  33:18  

And what are you doing for that?

Anirudh  33:20  

I think for us, obviously, we started building out a US team. And we had a very high quality set of, interesting thing is Pepper type or AI based content writing tool, we built basically to drive top of the funnel for the marketplace initially. Now that alone has some 200,000 users today. And the archetype matches a lot with marketers who are prospective customers technically. So we are seeing CMOS of large companies like L’Oreal, Unilever, Walmart, Macy’s, use Peppe type, and now we’re driving this product lead growth, demand to drive commerce for the marketplace. So that’s a key active channel we’re getting going. And then obviously we’re building out other demand generation or functional capabilities to scale up the business.

Siddhartha  34:12  

And when you talk about talent density, last year, we say for salaries which have never been seen in the industry, how do you match those? Because the best talent will always be overvalued. And it should be because they are doing the work of 10 people at the same time.

Anirudh  34:33  

So see, I’ll tell you, two rules of life or talent. One is, the best talent will cost you 2x and save 5x of your time. So second I think with respect to the market, we add pepper and have a very clear policy. We won’t overpay, market correction always comes technically it’s already started to come in. So we’re going to see a lot of that coming into place this year and when the music stops running is when all things come down. So for us, our goal has always been, and this is something even applicable for engineering by the way, when engineering salaries are just rock high and let’s say for us. The focus has always been that we won’t overpay, but wherever we see great talent, we will over invest. So for me, talent is never thought of as a cost center, it’s always an investment center. So that’s at least how I look at these things.

Siddhartha  35:34  

Thank you so much Anirudh. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you sharing your journey and knowing you for the last two years, seeing you grow. It gives me immense pride to see how you are growing the ecosystem along with you as well.

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